Potential of an MX-3
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@dd1e2919af:
…Hopped in, went to reverse it out of the garage and nearly put it through the house opposite...
I shouldn't really laugh…but I nearly spat my water all over my keyboard when I read that! :D
Cheers for the PDF...it looks like something a 5 year old would draw up with a set of crayons! :P I've not been much into the science of speed/torque/traction/etc., (mostly due to it being pretty complicated) but all this is amazingly interesting and good to know.
Not having ever owned, or indeed probably seen (or been aware of seeing) a Supercharged car, does the power come in like a turbo or is it "always on"?
Let it be said Famine, you are one knowledgeable bloke!!
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I'll have to see you soon Famine, I need info on supercharging mine :wink:
You going to Yorkshire modified and performance this Sunday?
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**Nah, I just like learning things I don't know, so that one day I can take over the world! Compared to a friend of mine whose kitchen and dining room are currently a Chevrolet Corvette spread over 300 square feet, I'm a proper r'tard.
Superchargers deliver power in quite a similar way to turbos - the more the engine does, the more the charger adds - but with the key difference that they are on the second the engine is (well… turbos are too, sorta). They're belt driven, off the crank, so as soon as you put your foot down the supercharger is there with powahhhh - there's no momentary lapse of concentration from the engine while the charger winds up like a turbo.
There's a downside (there always is). Because the supercharger runs off the crank, some of your engine's power is lost to turning it (turbos run off what is effectively waste product). At low engine/turbine speeds, the charger is quite inefficient, so you might lose something of the order of a raw 5-10hp way down low - though of course the charger is generating power so you might not see it on a braking dyno or even on the road (track? :D)
As they say in the US, there's no replacement for displacement. Big power is best coming from a big, nasp engine. Running nitromethane. :D But I digress. Forced induction is the replacement for displacement - by flowing more air, you gain equivalency of more displacement, but there's always downsides. Superchargers have parasitic losses, turbos have lag, nitrous is an expensive dark art, VTEC is shite off-cam - but a big engine is damned heavy and takes up a crapload of space. It's always a case of compromise - there simply isn't enough room in an MX-3 to take an LS1 V8, but you can make the same 350hp from a ZE with a giant twat-off turbo. Yes, it'll arrive in a better way in the LS1, but you can make the same 350hp from a ZE with a giant twat-off turbo. I'd rather have the LS1 simply from a driveability (and noise) point of view, but it's never going to happen, so we have to compromise.
If I was going for a big-power, track-focussed MX-3, I'd use the four-pot and start by swapping in a BPD 1.8 from the 323 GT-R - that's 210hp and 185lbft (beating the KL-ZE) from a stock engine before you work on it. Legend has it the B-series is good for 350hp before it starts getting expensive and silly. Small engine, big turbo, loadsa power all at once.
If I wanted to drive it on the road as well, however, it'd be a KL with a screw. You could probably reach the same power levels with a big enough blower, relatively* cheaply. Bigger engine, supercharger, loadsa power spread about a bit better.
If I only wanted to drive it on the road, it'd be a K8/KL with a screw. I wouldn't attempt to get near those power levels - in fact I'd set a power limit of 230hp (it's really the torque that matters, but if you know the power curve you can work out the torque curve easily, and with the same curve as stock, but higher, you're looking at about 210lbft which is safe for FWD). A screwed K8 would be less ideal, but it's another mind-wank :D Sensible engine, supercharger, enough power and evenly distributed.
You could make a frankly hilarious engine with a bit of outside-the-box thinking too. Take a K8, bore out to 85.4mm, fit ZE pistons and crank… With a standalone ECU, you'd get near enough 200hp at 9,000rpm. But that'd be a lot of work and you'd need time, money and spare engines. Be a laugh though. Until it exploded.
Nightstalker - Nope, bit busy this weekend. Also, I'm waaaaaay more a theory than practice guy. For a practice guy, you want to speak to the guy I brought to JNE. What he knows is almost as scary as what he can do. And how insane he is.**
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some good info in this thread, nice to see!
though you couldn't sensibly bore out a k8 to 84.5, the water jackets would be too thin and the cylinders would need relined, the cams would drop power off at 6/7k and oil pump would starve the engine, but the blowing up bit is right though :lol:
Supercharger makes boost at idle… currently I've got a bailey BOV installed, it vents to atmosphere for the pshhhhhhh sound. So if I have the SC switched on its a constant hiss unless I'm accelerating. I recently got a turbosmart dualport, which has recirculation and to atmosphere, should be more liveable!
The power comes in straight away, but develops of course too. With the antilag/launch control the boost can be right there instantly :) The LSD has seriously helped launches, no more one wheel spinning.
I still reckon I'll end up turbo though...
http://www.youtube.com/user/gldmmbrmx3#p/u/6/PBLzu8WJldw
12.1 on a stock block, he's in the 11s now, 342whp.Here's a klze NA 323. 11.7, this thing is like a rocket off the line!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AACd9YZlh5E
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@555e7abb79=Famine:
Nightstalker - Nope, bit busy this weekend. Also, I'm waaaaaay more a theory than practice guy. For a practice guy, you want to speak to the guy I brought to JNE. What he knows is almost as scary as what he can do. And how insane he is.
No probs buddy, I'm not sure if I'm going yet as the missus is doing the Redcar half marathon (plus I dunno IF I'll be able to get out of Redcar due to it?)..
Yeah, he was verrrrry knowledgeable. Just need to find a super charger now (well, maybe not just now :roll: ).
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@9ff6f7ce9c=Marco:
some good info in this thread, nice to see!
though you couldn't sensibly bore out a k8 to 84.5, the water jackets would be too thin and the cylinders would need relined, the cams would drop power off at 6/7k and oil pump would starve the engine, but the blowing up bit is right though :lol:
I'm pretty sure the crank would shear long before any other issues occurred. :D
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@af68d8f71c=nightstalker:
I'll have to see you soon Famine, I need info on supercharging mine :wink:
I've been doing a good bit of reading on supercharging the B6D powered '3 lately, the best thing I came across was this:
http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=42329
The engine in the 1.6 MX-5 is very similar to the 1.6 MX-3, apart from being longitudinally mounted in the '5 and some other stuff. That dude says it should be costing around £800.
I sorta gave up on the idea of supercharging mine though when I looked into the BP swaps people do on mx-3.com, and the low money that seemingly decent BP-powered 323 GT's make. Lots of information on the swap availible and you are getting ~140bhp. (Lots more if you used the turbocharged 323 GTX/GTR engine). Will probably be the route I go down when I get a job/win the lottery.
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@4b88f0c6b0=Marco:
though you couldn't sensibly bore out a k8 to 84.5, the water jackets would be too thin and the cylinders would need relined
You can rebore it to the 2.0litre spec safely, which is 3mm over at 78mm. I would think you could go 78.5 fairly easily, which is an oversize B-series 1.6 bore, if you could find a rod to suit. I think you might get away with 80mm or a little over, getting you a nice oversquare 2.1litre engine. This engine would not rev with the stock K8 cam, but it would be fairly peppy with KL cams…. might need the KL heads too to breathe properly.
Finding the right piston (and rod) is always the issue here.
Relining the K8 would not work, I've seen the siamese jacket design. The KL has a similar, but substantially meatier jacket. I think if you could find a piston to suit, a similar 3mm overbore would get you a nice 2.7 litres.
A lot of companies will do custom pistons. If you're willing to experiment, machingin the crown of a overbore 1.6 piston would get you what you needed for a K8... but simply, when you can do the same to a KL engine, why would you do it?
Hello, by the way. I'm the mad bloke.
I've been looking at various technical bits of the lil' Mazda for Famine. I think there's plenty of upgrades out there, but I've noticed you have to work at them - nothing is simple.
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Yes, he is. Certifiably so - but the line between utter madness and genius is quite a thin one :D
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My friend has my old volvo s70 t5. It now has 330hp and nearlly 600nM of torque, and has had a Limited slip diff fitted. Its front wheel drive, and she loves it now with that diff, what a differnce. I think, an mx3 with big power and a LSD would be wicked.
The mx-3 chassis is superb. I track mine a lot, and dispite only having 130hp, it shows some other machinery a thing or two..
